– How many cases of wine did you buy? – [Entrepreneur] 30. – Nothing, listen it’s
money but here’s what’s cool about it. You’re gonna fucking give it to cli–, like it’s so smart. You got your perspective. I just wanna be happy,
don’t you wanna be happy? This is the biz dev barter
of Empathy Wine episode. – So I bought Giant, and all
he was doing was postcards. It was called Giant Postcards. 2011 I buy the company,
yeah they’re this big, giant postcards. – How’d he come up with
the name of the company? (laughing) Go ahead. – He had one thing right,
he was doing shared. This is where I have
to, if we want to debate a little bit. – Please. – [Entrepreneur] I have to
debate with you because that plan right there, so he had a plan. I took it and I perfected it to that. Now the manager of the
club, if you flip it over, say that’s Gold’s Gym,
Anytime Fitness, whatever. That manager right there
goes next door to anywhere from two or one really. – The New York Jets were
paying me millions of dollars and making millions of
dollars by putting a logo in the bottom left-hand
corner of the video and picture we posted on Facebook. Shared is not exclusive to
postcards or social media. If you’re gonna tell me, which you are, that they amortized down
the cost I’m like cool. You can do that on Facebook
and you can do it at scale. And you can run more arbitrage on Facebook because if you know how,
a mailbox, the post office is fixed. Facebook is broken, it’s a marketplace. You get to take advantage. I am picking up fans who
speak Arabic for 1.9 cents right now. Fans, not consumption, follows. I’m gonna get paid $250,000,
$400,000 a speech in Kuwait, and Jordan, and Dubai in a
year because what Facebook does that the post office doesn’t
is it doesn’t floor it. So you’re right, I
understand what you’ve done. That’s really right. That’s what giant space allows you to do. – [Entrepreneur] And that’s the only way– – I totally got it. – [Entrepreneur] I believe
that direct mail works. – Honestly, look I
literally just said you know what’s funny? I don’t hate direct mail. I just know if you use Facebook perfectly, with the mentality of
direct mail, it’s scary. I don’t know what else to say the you bro. This is the same to everybody. I can literally put fuckin’
sushi on it for him. It’s crazy, but much like
you’ve perfected this, this practice of direct mail’s been around for 80 years. There’s so much work to be
done on the content side on Facebook and on the
discipline of being great at spending $88 against
African American males that live in you know,
downtown Atlanta who love the Hawks but not the Braves. I mean the shit is fuckin’
gnarly and there aren’t agencies yet or humans
that really understand what a Plinko board of
that level looks like. Like I said, yes. – [Entrepreneur] I want you to know that crucial part though. You made me pivot and
two years ago, right? Literally two years ago
I said okay Gary’s right, everybody believes him, right? – I gotta deal with that market behavior. – [Entrepreneur] I didn’t
know, I saw you randomly, but I would say, and I might
be completely wrong here. But I would say you’ve exploded
over the last two years. – Correct. I’d been around for eight
years, but it’s different now. – [Entrepreneur] And no offense obviously. – No offense, I’m pumped about it. I preach to these 24-year
olds patience, I lived it. I don’t wanna be a hypocrite. I’m pumped that I fuckin’
ate shit or grinded. And I was doing great like you. This is why I’m overreacting
to your 37 or whatever. You’re gonna have more
ups and downs depending on your personality trait. Ups and downs are based on risk. When you come from the
dirt you have more losses because you’re fuckin’
playing with, give a fuck. When you start doing it right a little bit it depends on my dad hit a
place where he was like fuck it I’m good. So I’m not gonna put myself
in a position ever again, you know? And honestly I’m kind of that way, too. I have enough of a nest egg in the thing, and even building Gary Vee
is really built on what if all shit goes to shit? So I always talk about the truth. The economy being vulnerable,
this and that nature. Because when the economy
collapses, I’m gonna be right ’cause I’m right. And two, I’m not gonna get
150, I’m gonna get 30,000. But I’ll still get 30,000. And at least that’s like
my insurance policy. – [Entrepreneur] Absolutely. – So you pivoted. – [Entrepreneur] I knew I couldn’t build, we were doing close (audio
skips), bucks, not bad. – And what, you were super
narrow to just this world? – [Entrepreneur] Just direct mail. – Just direct mail for
gyms or just direct– – [Entrepreneur] Anybody, anybody. – But that client was big. It was disruptive that,
my talk there because they were so big a percentage of your. – [Entrepreneur] 90%, 90%
of our business, numbers. – Got it, got it, if it was eight percent it wouldn’t have mattered. If you were Kentucky
Fried Chickens and gyms. – [Entrepreneur] If you ask anybody you can probably say this. I mean ask anybody in Anytime Fitness, I’ve been around for almost 13 years. – In that little world? – [Entrepreneur] In there, yeah. And I’ve done 12 Anytime Fitness clubs. – And you still have them? – [Entrepreneur] All
of them are still open. I’ve got a few because I’ve sold them. I bought one of my partners
out for a big chunk of money. – For this one? – [Entrepreneur] But before
I run out of time with you, the biggest thing that I did, and this is your doing is
I knew I couldn’t make it. If I wanted to get to
10 million, 20 million, 50 million, can’t do it with direct mail. Now I could do it with direct
mail, but do I necessarily want to? – You don’t want to fight,
you didn’t want to fight, like you’re smart. You could have. – [Entrepreneur] It’s five, 10% margins. – But not only that, you would
have had to fuckin’ fight the inevitable fact that
over time the internet will continue to gobble up more. You’re gonna have to fight
harder on lower margin for a smaller pie. – [Entrepreneur] So
what I did was of course I can do the old stuff. I printed that. – I love that you did that. – [Entrepreneur] You’ve
got a couple more here. And I got some other
stuff, but I wasn’t super impressed with it. I had my production manager do some stuff. But I got into literally,
we still do the direct mail because it’s still a good bit. It’s still 30, 40% of our business. – But now? – [Entrepreneur] As you know,
direct mail’s expensive, right? So on our revenue it’s good. Now on the profit side
like I said, five, 10%. – I got it. – [Entrepreneur] I hate
doing a frickin’ $10,000 deal and only make 1,000 bucks. – I get it. – [Entrepreneur] Two and a
half years ago I said okay we’ve gotta do everything. Not necessarily everything work small. So we started with the banners,
then we went to lanyards. Then we went to t-shirts. T-shirts really took off. T-shirts is I think where it’s gonna be. Now we literally, if you go to my site we literally do everything. – You make. – [Entrepreneur] I hate to say no. Somebody calls me up,
hey can do you do this? – The answer’s yes. – [Entrepreneur]] I’m like yes. – Brother, I’m a believer. I’m at my best when I’m
that and I hate the years where my companies get big
and I have to let it be in the no business for little while. That’s what I’m just
getting out of in Vaner. Like the last three years I
haven’t been outrageously happy with the no culture of my own company. But what you do at times is you start. I’m a big believer in yes. Then I think there’s times
where you’re marinating some of those yeses which forces you to do a little no. And I hate those periods. I’m getting back into
yes which excites me. Is there anything that I
can help with right now? – [Entrepreneur] Absolutely man. – What? – [Entrepreneur] Do you have,
I know print’s not huge. It’s all about online right? We’re mostly offline. – Don’t get it twisted. I love LinkedIn, I’m talking
a lot about LinkedIn. But I don’t love LinkedIn
ads ’cause there’s a floor. I don’t like floors, I like
internet has unlimited scale and inefficiencies when you start at zero. I’m a by-product of my reality. I built a business from
three to 60 million dollars in four seconds with
no money ’cause Google didn’t have a fuckin’ floor
at five cents a click. Nobody on earth at the
time, and I fucked up. I should have built a
trillion dollar company. But I was in my little wine world. Nobody was buying silver oak and red wine, and Bordeaux. And I just fuckin’ cleaned house. That’s why I love social media. Instagram stories right
now will sign up a lot more people to the gym
than that if you know what you’re doing. It’s like anything else. If you’re good at baseball
then it’s a great idea. You make fuckin’ $23 million a year being a middle reliever. But if you’re not, you’re not. So it comes down to skill. I actually like paper, I like real world. I like events, I just talked about it. I like paper because
there’s a place for paper. I write books in book form. People make fun of me sometimes. They’re like uh, Mr. Digital. I’m like because people read them. There are very few things
I shit on that I still do. I’m doing direct mail this week. I don’t know what else to tell you. – [Entrepreneur] How can we work together? – That’s probably a
better question, right? That’s the bigger, you
always start with the moon and work back, exactly. – [Entrepreneur] We just
partnered with another guy. Our website is going through the roof. We’re getting orders from everywhere. I’ve even talked to
Australia about going– – I don’t even want to know
how much paper is being printed in America. I guess the question is
what do you have right? When you say we’re gonna do everything, are you sitting in the
middle and outsourcing? Do you have a printing press? I don’t even know what to ask? – [Entrepreneur] When I was
with Gold’s Gym, I’m back, I did a full circle. What I did over the past– – What’s my timing? – [Male] You’re over. – By how much? I know, by how much? – [Male] 10 minutes. – Okay but we’ll have five more minutes. – [Entrepreneur] Awesome, man. Basically full circle. – This is why this barter
thing I’m doing is stupid because I’m not gonna be able to stay. Like we spent all this
time analyzing my time. Then it’s so expensive
that we kind of discounted and I’m already upset. Then I’m gonna go over
by 30% in every meeting because I get pumped. That’s what I keep telling people. When I have to sell something,
I’m impossible to get to. – [Entrepreneur] I’ve
been trying to get to you for two and a half years. – Right and how many
cases of wine did you buy? – [Entrepreneur] 30. – Nothing, listen it’s money. But here’s what’s cool about it. You’re gonna fucking give it to cli–, like it’s so smart. – [Entrepreneur] That’s
what I was telling John. I was telling John yesterday. – I’m like having the
conversation with you guys. Like this fuckin’ sucker. I feel like I’m not joking,
I feel like a sucker. But I love it. It’s back to the grind of the game. I love when both people win. I love that you’re winning. – [Entrepreneur] I’m gonna
give away 100, 200 bottles. What if they all love it? You’re a genius. I can’t drink 300 bottles. – I know that. – [Entrepreneur] To be honest,
I’m not even a wine guy. – And who’s gonna buy wine? People are gonna buy wine that can aff-, who’s gonna be able to barter? They’re gonna be able
to afford it which means they’re in business. Or one person just bought 100 cases. They’re donating it to charity. The charity that I’m on
the board of is going to use it at very high
events where it’s going to get good branding. So totally and here’s why good with that versus other things. It’s truly a $40 wine truly for $20. So the people that get it are gonna freak of how good it is. And if you give it to
somebody who normally buys eight to $20 wine, they’re gonna be like this is so good when
they go to the website and see that it’s $20 by
the case they’re gonna be like fuck, this is way
better than what I’m buying at Total Wine. And it’s ’cause it actually
is a $40 wine for $20. Anyway nonetheless, what can we do? Here’s what I would say. You’re catching me at an amazing time. I’m as, okay here’s what we can do. Let me give you the whole gamut. I don’t know if Vaner is
in a position where it’s so disproportionately pumped to get the paper or direct mail business for
our clients because we’re competing at the highest level. They’re working with–. – [Entrepreneur] Aren’t you leaving money on the table, though? – We are, but the fight
to the fight to give me their business when
they’re working with who the fuck knows up the scale,
probably they’re getting added value from their national media. I don’t know, but I’ll do some homework. The most extreme, and I
don’t think this is going to, intuitively this doesn’t feel right. There’s more almost
doing it for him and I. I want Phil and we’re going
through our own process. This is me really taking time to sell Phil on this continued idea. I’m desperate to create
a company called 49. I have this thought
that I’m going to build enormous amounts of wealth
by creating a company that truly partners with
people that are actually smart. I mean think about it. You paid a lot of money to
buy out a minority partner. Me rolling in right now
and being like give me 49% of your business is not like the thing that’s gonna get you excited. So Phil’s gonna put you on a call. I want him on it because
I want him to learn. You should take the business from the guy that’s got it from us at Wine Library. So that should happen. I think that’s good
because I wanna continue. I’m testing the waters, I still like it. – [Entrepreneur] Do you do
specialty or do you just do saturation mailing, do you know? – We do both, we do both. – [Entrepreneur] Okay
because specialty is good. It’s obviously more
expensive because you’ve got to pay first-class postage. – I’ll be honest with you. What’s really fascinating to me is the, I think I can do it very weird. I’m in such a unique
spot as a human so cool. This is the model? I think Wine Library could
probably make $500,000 a year because unlike all these
companies if I actually have a B side, if I do
one video on Facebook that says hey, I’m doing
something with direct mail I need you to send me the
samples of your products because I will not let
you buy space unless I believe in your product or service. After we do quality control
I could probably be mailing weekly and making my dad 5,000 to 10,000. – [Entrepreneur] You
could be mailing for free. – No, no as a profit center. – [Entrepreneur] Dude, you
could actually make money. There are clause, you know these. – That’s what a profit center is. – [Entrepreneur] I cap
it, I say it’s 2,100 bucks for 5,000 postcards. If you get 2,400 you
get to keep 300 bucks. – That’s what I’m saying,
that’s what I’m saying. – [Entrepreneur] So you
could absolutely do that. – Wonder if we can turn
that into a business for influencers? Think about what I’m talking about now. Test this with these guys. We do it for six months,
really get it down. Feel good about it. We build out some sort
of little sales, CRM-y kind of little thing
that becomes scalable. Then you convince, so for
example, fitness influencers. Like it could be a profit
center for influencers penetrating demos they’re not reaching. You know, if you’re the cliche
ad, the good looking dude or hot chic, you’re welcome man. (laughing) I love your haircut
too, I’m super into you. I was like fuck man, I wish I had that. You like his haircut? – [Entrepreneur] I thought
I was gonna get tattooed on the hair. – Tattoo’s cool, but
the haircut’s good man. It’s like good. – [Entrepreneur] So I
do good bringing him. – Very good. – [Entrepreneur] Hey man,
he’s got a piece of this if we do a deal. – Anyway, so I need to wrap. Here’s what I would say. Through the process you’ll
send and email to them, me, and Brandon. Phil and Brandon will be on
the phone with you tomorrow. You should take that business. We should do this. We’ll do it once just
normal, make sure everything. That’s not what I’m worried about. It’s the holidays. In January I think I’m
literally I’m not joking. I’m gonna try to roll, I mean just try it. I like saying yes, trying shit. I’m gonna try to subsidize it for my dad. I’m trying to find ways to
help my dad make more money. I’m gonna subsidize it
with local New Jersey, I’ll run the ads only in Jersey. It will literally be
like Gary Vee’s Jersey business recommended. It really is something I
think if you think about how I’m leveraging brand,
it’s something my dad could be making 10,000 bucks. If my dad, if I told
my dad, dad, good news. You’re mailing weekly ’cause it works, it’s just expensive. You’re mailing weekly and you’re
gonna make $10,000 a month because I’m whoring myself
out on the other side through a process that I feel good about because I do like that
restaurant in Red Hook and I do feel good about the
taffy place in Atlantic City, and I do feel good about the whatever. He’ll be happy and the business will grow. He’ll make $120,000 in
net profit just ’cause and his business will
get a ton more traffic. It will work, so anyway
and then maybe we build that model. Then if I like that,
probably this time next year I would then be able to say
hey, let’s do this for real whether it’s 20%. We’re really trying to figure
out what we’re building. We’ve gone from investing
to private equity, to directed consumer brands,
to a holding company. But I think, and it doesn’t
have to be Phil by the way. If he decides not to pass on it, it will be Andy K or Tyler, or Sini. I think I’m inevitably going
down a path of a company called 49, Vaner 49. – [Entrepreneur] I love it. – It’s smart. – [Entrepreneur] It’s an awesome network. Can you image the network you would–. – Of course I’m thinking about that. The amount of people. – [Entrepreneur] An
event with those people. – The Turks and Caicos weekend every year on the 49th week of the year. (laughing) Oh that’s December, it’s cold. I love that, that’s what? Right before, that’s literally
December 12th, I love it. That’s exactly right. The entrepreneurial of America or whatever those fuckin’ things are called. They’re outdated, all those things. – [Entrepreneur] I love it. – A holding company,
and I can really do it. It’s what happens when you build brand. In the same way that you
fuckin’ had a deal with the ramifications of me
getting excited on stage in a hockey arena in New York. I really, really do think
after I got to know you, or I wouldn’t give up my brand. ‘Cause that’s what you’re scared of. I’m not gonna say you’re a
fuckin’ direct mail dude, I don’t know you. I like everything so far,
intuitive, it feels right. Like the story, you do a little homework. You do something for
a year and you can say you’re the direct mail. It’s fuckin’, it’s game over. You’ll pick up an enormous market share. You’re gonna do two million,
that’s already way better than one million. – [Entrepreneur] Do you
think I should still continue to grow on the t-shirt side? – Yes. – [Entrepreneur] ‘Cause
I have to diversify. – 100,000 percent, alright
let’s do these one-on-ones, get it out of here Phil. (smooth jazz music)